Interview with a Peace Corps Volunteer: Jackie
Jackie retired in 2022 at age 55. She is Associate Dean Emerita and has worked in teaching hospitals, education research, and higher education institutions in the not-for-profit sector for 30 years.
Jeff: How have you been?
Jackie: Good. Today has been crazy busy. I started the day with some meetings, the first at the American Corner with my NGO, followed by my English Club. After this interview, I’m going to grab a bite for dinner, and then I hop on a ten o’clock Zoom meeting.
Jeff: The American Corner. What’s that?
Jackie: American Corner is a space made available to the host country in partnership with the US embassy and funded by the US State Department. NGOs and other organizations can use the Corners. They have free programs, projects, resources, and a library. They have locations in five cities here. There’s also a floating one to support organizations in smaller locations. It’s a pop-up American Corner.
Jeff: Like a bookmobile?
Jackie: Basically, they will provide the space for events, like book swaps, workshops, courses, and English language learning.
Jeff: So you have one in your city and hang out there a lot?
Jackie: I pitched the idea to my secondary NGO, using American Corner as an alternative space for when our English club gets too big for the space in our office. It turns out that there are quite a few English clubs at the American Corner. It’s a useful space.
Jeff: Does it have a lounge area like a clubhouse?
Jackie: It’s a comfortable space that is well-furnished. It’s not very big, but it has floor-to-ceiling bookshelves with English books. It’s situated on the university campus, so a lot of university students can use it as a workspace, especially for hybrid-type projects. You could have people online and people in the space collaborating, which is good because I have someone in Germany in the English Club. All the members are over 30 years old and transitioning to different careers. They can speak English but want to develop more confidence in communication skills, grammar, sentence structure, and work-related vocabulary.
Jeff: Nice. What organization do you work with?
Jackie: I work with two NGOs. My primary organization is KRIK, which focuses on youth activism and the inclusion of people with developmental disabilities. It has three components: grant-funded projects, an occupational health center, and a residential program.
The occupational health center has a therapist who does art and music therapy and other activities. The center provides people with developmental disabilities with an opportunity to interact with each other. They are basically mobile. They go home, come in, and are independent to some extent. Their families usually drop them off and pick them up. A few of them can commute on their own.
The residential program houses people with developmental disabilities. We have three apartments. Each can house up to five beneficiaries. The government has been deinstitutionalizing people with developmental disabilities. They’re encouraging communities to take on the responsibility of providing space and care for the beneficiaries who are a little bit less mobile. Beneficiaries need more attention than families can provide or don’t have families that can take care of them. Currently, my organization has fifteen residential beneficiaries. And we’ve just been approved for a fourth apartment that will house new beneficiaries sometime next year.
My other organization, SIEC, Social Integration and Empowerment Center, focuses on community development through education, gender equity, empowerment of marginalized groups, promotion of social entrepreneurship, and employability. Their primary business model is upcycling of used materials and sustainable fashion. They create new items from recycled clothing, conference banners, and other materials.
Jeff: I’m not familiar with the term upcycling. What is that?
Jackie: Upcycling is actually very popular. In the US, we have second-hand stores that resell used clothing. In upcycling, before resale, the item is improved, or the textile is repurposed. Take the denim from a pair of jeans and make a handbag. Redesign canvas or plastic conference banners into tote bags, yoga bags, and folios. They even use donated seat belt straps to make the straps or decorative details of the finished products.
Jeff: Interesting. So, in your first organization. They are serving adults; is that correct?
Jackie: Yes, for the most part. In Macedonia, anyone 18 to 29 is considered a youth. KRIK serves youth and adults. SIEC has projects that cross the age spectrum as well.
Jeff: It sounds like you are enjoying the work.
Jackie: I am. It was difficult at first. There was a learning curve, and acclimating to the work culture was challenging. I’m used to working long hours and then going home and working some more.
When we started in late November last year, I was only working with KRIK. We were heading into the holiday break, and everything was winding down. Everyone was working on end-of-year project reports and some interim reports. There might be a series of meetings related to those deliverables. That’s the nature of the work, but it just wasn’t enough for me, so I requested a second organization in December.
When people returned from vacation in mid-January, things began to pick up. I started to have more work and then got my second assignment in March. After that, I spent four days at KRIK and one day a week with SIEC.
Jeff: So, you like the level of work that you’re doing now?
Jackie: Yes. It’s interesting. SIEC is a member of a consortium called “The Forum for Non-majority Communities.” It is a group of organizations that focus on representing non-majority groups. They represent Vlachs, Bosnians, Serbians, Roma, and other non-majority populations in North Macedonia. They work together to raise awareness of the needs of those groups. I have been supporting their efforts as well.
These different organizations appeal to me because of my background in diversity, equity, and inclusion. I’m glad the Peace Corps gave me these two organizations. It’s a big plus that they both have space in the same building.
Actually, that proximity between SIEC’s office and KRIK’s residential unit opened the door for an Urban Garden Project. The funding for the first phase was awarded to SIEC before I started working with them. At the phase one event, SIEC partnered with SOS DETSKO SELO and the Dutch NGO Out of Area, bringing Macedonia, a group of seventy youth and adults from the Netherlands, to paint the garden area. Then I requested help from Liz, a Peace Corps volunteer who has been here for a year and has done urban garden projects before. Now, we’re in the next phase, acquiring the project’s plants, seeds, fencing, garden tools, and materials.
Jeff: That’s interesting. In my town, everybody’s yard has a garden in it. If there’s spare ground anywhere, somebody’s growing tomatoes, peppers, cabbage, or something. That’s not the case in the capital?
Jackie: I live with a host family that has a large garden area with a variety of fruit trees and vegetables. Unfortunately, birds got most of the cherries, but the persimmons and grapes will be ready in October. It’s not unusual to see gardens here, but there may be vacant lots near the apartment buildings where my NGOs are located.
The space we’re developing is bordered by a sweet cherry tree on one end and a sour cherry tree on the other. But in between, there’s nothing planted or maintained except some grass, and it’s a big space. So, SIEC had the vision to do a lot with that space in partnership with KRIK. SIEC wants to engage youth in learning about urban gardens and entrepreneurship. They’ll be hosting workshops and meetings for all ages. KRIK can do physical or occupational therapy with their beneficiaries. As they manage the garden, they can benefit from the fresh vegetables. Both organizations are coming together to make this project a success.
Jeff: That’s so great. Is the ground relatively fertile, or do you have to condition the soil?
Jackie: One of the SIEC employees has a vibrant garden at her home. She said that the ground needs a lot of work, so we’re taking that into consideration. She has a lot of good ideas on approaches we can take to get the soil productive, which plants will provide a good yield.
I recommended that we partner with the agricultural college and maybe bring in students who might be interested in urban development and urban planning. They could consider using open spaces in cities where the streets are wide, and the trees are sparse and experiment with the impact of urban gardening on the environment. That’s at least one of the partnerships that we want to establish.
The area is overrun with grasses and weeds. Those plants must be eliminated, which means removing much of the topsoil. Then, new soil would have to be introduced, and some fertilization would be needed. But all of that can be done naturally. We can create decorative compost areas that would produce good soil and natural fertilizer. Liz brought her experience and expertise and came with a lot of energy. It was nice to have her as a partner.
Jeff: Do you have any background in agriculture?
Jackie: This is all new to me. My background is in creating partnerships. I envision ways to bring people together and encourage collaboration. I did a lot of strategic planning and program development in my work at the university. I invited groups of people together to talk about ideas and possibilities for collaboration. I didn’t require expertise in their areas. I worked on acquiring enough of an understanding of their areas of expertise to identify synergies that could lead to collaborative projects.
Jeff: What was your favorite collaboration in your previous life?
Jackie: My favorite collaborative project involved developing a program I called VERSE, which stands for Visiting and Early Research Scholar Experiences Program. That program is still running. Initially, it involved grant-funded research scientists in the basic sciences. So, psychology, biology, chemistry, and math, and as time went on, I expanded to include the social sciences and the arts.
The idea of the program was to increase the number of students of color who were introduced to active research programs and received training on how to engage in research. It wasn’t teaching them how to do research. They already knew that. It was about demystifying the process of getting invited to do the research. Universities call it the hidden curriculum because many students did well academically but lacked access to crucial research experiences. This deficit rendered them less competitive for graduate programs.
I created this program to bridge that gap. It benefited the faculty, who expanded their lab teams and helped the students of color engage in research on teams.
The other program I’m most proud of was GLIDE, Graduate Leadership in Inclusion, Diversity, and Equity. After the murder of George Floyd, there were a lot of conversations at universities about how to equip students with the tools to make a difference in the real world. They had the training and theory around DEI but not much hands-on practice. So, I created this program to help.
The students identified the issues that they wanted to address. Then, we gave them an opportunity to think about what kind of change they wanted to affect, provided them with the skills to make that change happen, and supported them in implementing the change. This was very collaborative because I had a variety of students from several academic, administrative, and operations departments. It involved supporting the students as they developed and implemented their practicum projects.
The students were effective advocates on the university campus. But once they became employees, would they have the skills to transform their environments into inclusive workplaces? What does it look like to have an idea that’s transformative and then get an organization to buy into the concept and bring it to fruition so that it becomes part of the organization? It’s even harder than it sounds. You’ve got to deal with the psychology of change and people’s resistance to it. You need to understand the biology and neurology behind it. And then, you need to navigate the power dynamics and not be overwhelmed.
Jeff: Negotiating the fear of losing power and reimagining what the organization looks like. How those in charge are not really losing power. Instead, you’re transforming the entire organization. That’s a hard sell.
Jackie: That program is still running as well. After I left, I had the chance to sit in on the practicum presentations and hear the students’ talks. I saw the new cohort of students and the projects that they were working on. That was really, very, very satisfying.
Jeff: So, you retired in 2022.
Jackie: Age 55.
Jeff: Whoo. And then, in September of 2023, you ended up in North Macedonia. How did that happen?
Jackie: Let me back up a little. I was 25 years old when I decided that I would retire at 55. I decided to buy a house. The mortgage is 30 years. 30 plus 25; once I’m done paying for the house, I can stop working. Not a rational or mature plan, I know. But the reason I did that was because I had lost my father. He became ill in his 60s and worked through the illness. He finally retired, and shortly after that, he passed away. It sort of stuck in my mind that I didn’t want to work until I was sick and incapacitated. I wanted to be able to stop work and “Launch Jackie 2.0.” That’s what I call this new phase I’m in.
Jeff: Okay.
Jackie: During the 30 years from 25 to 55, a lot happened. I didn’t expect my mom to get sick. After my dad passed away, my mom became ill, and she asked me to take care of her. Less than two years after losing my dad, I was really concerned that I was going to be losing my mom as well. I’m the youngest of seven children, so I, of course, agreed. She came to live with me when my career was just starting off. I was her primary caregiver for about 13 years, and my focus was on her health and well-being.
She passed just before my 40th birthday, and I realized that my career had been on the back burner. I had paid very little attention to my career while caring for her, so I became laser-focused on building my career. I still had in the back of my mind that I would retire at 55, and I was even more determined at that point. I tried to work multiple jobs, but that was not sustainable. So, I found other ways to diversify and achieved the goal of retiring at 55.
The idea of being retired solely to enjoy traveling didn’t seem like a sustainable plan. I had already touched six continents while I was working. The only one left was Antarctica. I didn’t see how travel could fill the time that work had occupied. I had always imagined that I would do some sort of international humanitarian work. My biggest concern was being idle and not working at all.
I had always focused on doing good through service, and I also wanted to serve my country. That probably sounds kind of weird from an African American in the post-George Floyd period, but I felt very patriotic. I was encouraged by the change I saw happening around me. It gave me hope.
So, I looked into several organizations, and the Peace Corps was, in my opinion, the best one because it didn’t require me to have international work experience or raise my own funding.
The Peace Corps also provided training in language and technical skills, which was incredible compared to the other organizations I was considering. That’s basically how I ended up filling out one of those inquiry forms online.
Jeff: What has your experience with the Peace Corps been like so far?
Jackie: My experience has been positive. Integration into the community cycles up and down. I’ve definitely done that where I’m living and with the organizations where I work. I had expectations, but I was also very open. I didn’t come with any preconceived notions. I didn’t say, “I want to work with this age group or do that kind of work.” I just left it open. I didn’t indicate whether I wanted to work in a city, village, or municipality. I didn’t stipulate any of that. I just said, put me wherever, and so I ended up in the capitol working with NGOs that are a perfect fit in terms of my work experience in diversity, equity, and inclusion.
Jeff: Did you apply directly to North Macedonia, or was it just open? Do you have any geography preferences?
Jackie: No. I had no preference at all when I filled out that little inquiry form. I was shocked at how quickly the recruiter contacted me. Based on my resume, the recruiter recommended North Macedonia and the Community and Economic Development sector.
Jeff: How was the application process?
Jackie: I have to say the recruiter was fantastic and iterative. I wrote the motivation statement, and he gave me feedback. I think I had three or four iterations of it. So that process wasn’t complicated. It was easy to find university colleagues and friends to provide character references.
I applied on December 1st and was contacted for an interview during the first week of January, which was pretty quick. Then, my brother passed away, so I postponed the interview for a month while I planned the funeral with my family. Two days after the interview, I received the invitation.
The medical clearance took months. The medical history form they sent the day after I submitted the application is exhaustive, so finishing it took me a while. I am so thankful for electronic medical records. Once I received the invitation, I received a list of exams, diagnostics, and procedures required to complete my medical history. And that’s what took me several months to finish. It’s only because, in Massachusetts, getting an appointment is not easy. You can call, and the next available appointment could be in two months. So, it took several months of making appointments and scheduling diagnostics. On the other hand, the security clearance was easy. I took the fingerprint form to the nearest police department, completed it, and submitted it. I never heard anything from anyone until a week or so before deployment, stating that I had been cleared.
Jeff: It sounds like you’ve been pretty busy so far in this first year. What’s been your most significant success? The thing that you’re proudest of.
Jackie: I’ve done a lot of strategic planning for KRIK around fundraising, and I was able to create some exciting partnerships for them. I participated in their summer camp. But I’m looking forward to a new collaboration that just started forming recently. There’s a need for repairs and renovations to the building. Every time it rains, there’s a flood in one of the main rooms we use for office, conference, and training space. So, I’ve been developing a partnership with Habitat for Humanity in Macedonia. I’m really excited about it and looking forward to working with them on grant applications. Habitat engineers came to assess the roof and provide us with a plan and cost estimate.
I’ve always respected Habitat for Humanity. Former President Jimmy Carter co-founded the organization; his mother, Lillian Carter, was a Peace Corps volunteer at age 68. I’m looking forward to using any free time I have to work on habitat projects.
I got the idea from another Peace Corps volunteer here. Veronica’s municipality is working with Habitat for Humanity to develop housing. Collaboration among the volunteers here is fantastic.
With SIEC, we held workshops during Fashion Week, launched the Urban Garden Project, started an English Club, and attended Forum and embassy meetings. I also helped identify and connect SIEC to new partners.
Jeff: What is your least favorite occupation?
Jackie: Anything that doesn’t require much creativity. Anything repetitive. That would be my least favorite occupation. Jobs that attracted me were always positions that never existed before and were newly created to solve a particular problem. Those positions were the ones that I enjoyed the most. They allowed me to create things from scratch. To initiate something new and to add value. That was satisfying; it challenged my intellect and left me very satisfied.
Jeff: You’ve had some significant successes already. Have you had any failures or situations that got you down in the dumps? Have you ever thought about quitting?
Jackie: Before I applied to Peace Corps, I committed five years of my time to global volunteerism. I was looking for a five-year opportunity, and the Peace Corps came the closest with 27 months. I knew up front that this assignment was just half of what I wanted to do and would do it again if I had the opportunity.
Early on, I had some challenges at my first organization. It was very jarring for me because it made me question my 5-year commitment, and I had only been at my site for two months. But here in North Macedonia, I’m in a different country and a different culture, and I represent the Peace Corps and my country in everything I do.
I talked it over with friends and family, and in the end, I talked myself out of quitting. I’ve dealt with strong personalities before. That’s not new for me. It was a fleeting thought to leave, and I had already decided that I was going to do this for five years. The only reasonable limits would be my own mental health and physical capacity to thrive as a volunteer. When that changes, then I will stop.
Jeff: There are strong personalities anywhere you go in the world. There’s no shortage of jerks in the world. Do you think the disrespect you experienced was due to race or gender? Or was it that you are American, a volunteer, or all of the above?
Jackie: It’s interesting because I work in an organization that values inclusion.
To be fair, I have to say my counterparts at both organizations have been fabulous. I enjoy working with them. They are really good people. There is mutual respect. We are developing friendships, and I really appreciate them.
The relationships I’ve developed in addition to the Peace Corps and work environments have made my integration beneficial. It’s made my stay here rewarding. My host family is fantastic. We like to sit outside and enjoy coffee together year-round. I also found two churches that I really like, and I attend fairly regularly. My circle of friends continues to expand because those people introduce me to other people. I’m glad that I didn’t let a negative experience affect me. I would have missed out on everything else that I’m enjoying now.
Visiting other volunteers has been an absolute joy. I enjoyed visiting you and Ramona, Marie, Alice, and Vee. Recently, I had the pleasure of harvesting grapes with Jenna and her host family. And that’s just naming a few. I’ve had numerous opportunities to spend time with other volunteers. You can’t let the challenges rob you of your joy. They are nothing compared to what you gain from the whole experience of being in North Macedonia and the Peace Corps.
Jeff: So cool. It sounds like you’re working with an organization that is all about DEI, as you said, but just because people work in a job that focuses on inclusion doesn’t mean they leave their preconceived notions and their personalities at the door.
Jackie: I don’t think that there’s formal education around racism, specifically. KRIK’s challenge is more about combatting discrimination based on disability. There’s a lot of effort to change people’s perceptions of those with developmental challenges and people’s perceptions of non-majority groups, which is the Forum’s focus. There are people of color in North Macedonia. However, the organizations I work with do not have that focus.
I have a wonderful group of friends who are people of color here. They are very candid about their experiences.
They want to create a better environment for themselves and their children and are trying to raise awareness and create change. It’s very encouraging to me to be surrounded by people like that and to hear their stories.
Jeff: Nice. I don’t want to harp on the negativity, but at the same time, I don’t want to paint a picture that serving in the Peace Corps is all butterflies and rainbows. So, thank you. I really appreciate that.
Jeff: After all that you’ve been through, would you recommend the Peace Corps to someone in the States?
Jackie: Absolutely, without hesitation. The challenges have been transformative for me because I have to think and act differently. I have to adjust to interact effectively. In the US, I had a supportive network at church, at work, and in my community. I have to rebuild all of that in this relatively short period of time. That’s what integration is all about.
The Peace Corps is a fantastic program. They take care of everything so you can focus on the work, the integration, and the experience. That is not true of other organizations that offer this kind of volunteer opportunity. It also has the added benefit of making you feel good about your service to your country.
I’m thinking about how I’ll extend my service — maybe a year here, another 27 months in another country, or possibly with Peace Corps Response. I’ve been looking at all three possibilities on the Peace Corps website. I would encourage anyone who’s retired and has an interest in international service to put the Peace Corps at the top of the list.
Jeff: Thanks.
Jackie: So, I have a funny story.
Being in the Peace Corps was the first time I ever read every page of my passport. Have you read every page of your passport?
Jeff: I have not.
Jackie: Sometimes I have free time and carry my passport everywhere. So, I was flipping through the passport and realized that every page has a quote that elicits a patriotic response. It has quotes from John F. Kennedy, Theodore Roosevelt, and Martin Luther King Jr. They talk about democracy and America and America’s responsibility.
I was amazed and felt somewhat cheated because I got the small passport with only 32 pages instead of the big one with 52 pages or whatever. I wonder what the quotes are in that one. I was so inspired that I read the passport cover to cover. On the first page, there’s this statement that says,
“The Secretary of State of the United States of America hereby requests all whom it may concern to permit, the citizen/national of the United States named herein to pass without delay or hindrance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection.”
I was on a day trip to Serbia, chatting with the Macedonian tour guide, and I read my American passport to him because I had it out anyway. After all, we were crossing the border. I read the quotes from George Washington and Dwight Eisenhower all the way to the back cover, where there is a quote from someone I’ve never heard of, Anna Julia Cooper. (I know who she is now.) She said,
“The cause of freedom is not the cause of a race or a party or class. It is the cause of humankind, the very birthright of humanity.”
And my driver said, “That is amazing, if it’s true.” And then I told him how it just inspires me. It just picks me up. Then I asked him what it said in his passport. He said that it has his name and address. And it says, “If you find this document, please mail it back to the owner.”
Jackie: I’m sure it says more than that, but my local language tutor said that’s because, in the Macedonian mindset, this kind of legal document isn’t meant to be inspiring. It’s meant to be functional.
Jackie: I’ll tell you another story if you have time.
Jeff: Okay, yeah, go for it.
Jackie: One time, I had to go from one neighborhood to another, and of course, the GPS gave me the most direct walking route. But it was taking me to this barren area by some railroad tracks. I thought, “This can’t be right, this can’t be right.” So, I started praying. There were no other people around, but I kept going, all the while thinking there must be a better route. Finally, the GPS took me to this enormous fence. But there was no way to get through it. I looked left. I looked right but couldn’t figure out why the GPS had taken me there. I was starting to feel nervous. So, I turned around to start walking back, and there was this tall guy with gray hair, all dressed in black.
In a thick Macedonian accent, he asked me, “Where do you like to go?”
I was so relieved, and I told him, “Aerodrome.”
And he said, “You’re going the right way.”
He took me back to the fence toward these big bushes. I thought, “My God, he’s gonna take me into these bushes and kill me.”
But he must have read my mind because he said, “It’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay.”
We went through bush after bush until there was this massive hole in the fence.
Just as we passed through that hole, this little girl with a pink backpack skipped past us, taking the same route we had just come through, all by herself. He looked at me and said, “Everybody uses this shortcut.”
She trotted on by while I tried to compose myself. He walked me all the way to the sidewalk and said, “You’re in Aerodrome now. Just go ahead to your destination. No one will talk to you, and no one will bother you.” As I walked away, I turned and said, “Фала ти на време.” which is thank you for your time.
He spun around and started talking to me in Macedonian. And we had a lovely conversation in my broken Macedonian. He was so happy that I was in his country and that I had taken the time to start learning the language. I kind of wish I had memorialized that meeting with a picture, but I’ll never forget that experience. It blew up my mentality about safety and isolated places as he walked me through that fence.
Jeff: Wow, that’s amazing. Thank you so much for your time.
Disclaimer: The opinions in this essay are those of the volunteer being interviewed and do not necessarily represent those of the Peace Corps or the United States government.
